Talk:Profstat
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Yo, this is new content that I have not been able to talk about on the mailing list, due to computer problems. I'll try to remember to write about it once I get the chance, but basically Profstat ties in with Omniskill which I'm pretty sure I've never mentioned before (it's a very new idea), and with Profession skills, which I may have talked briefly about before, or perhaps at least alluded to, but never as something that I felt was thought through sufficiently for it to be good to include (which I do think it is now).--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 23:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Feeling bold
I think this article warrants the complete tag. I can't think of anything hat needs added to it right now. It basically says everything it needs to say, should say, or could say. I'm feeling bold.--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 23:16, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Commenting out intermediate headers
I thought about "commenting out" the intermediate "World Impact" 3rd level sub-section header, because there's no contet under it (only in the sub-sub-section beneath it), so that it is functionally disabled but still appears in the wikitext code in case someone later wants to re-enable it, but I decided not to do it, because I'm not sure MediaWiki likes seeing that sort of thing. It is worth trying eventually, to see whether it works or not. I just don't feel bold enough for that now. --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 23:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
A couple of changes
Changed the inherent RD modifiers of Profession and Omniskill, to +1 RD for Profession and +2 RD for Omniskill. Also hinted at a rules change so that Profession skills follow a different cost progression than regular skills: Each level costs twice as much as the previous, until the PV, then 3 times as much after the PV. I think this is overall an improvement, since the extreme RD penalties have transparency problems. The harsher cost progression serves better to keep Profession skill levels low, and also Omniskill. The currrent SP amounts per GP (see the Creating a charater article) are based on the cost progression for regular skills, though, where for APT 3.00 the first 4 skill levels would cost 200, 300, 600 and 1200 SP each (keep in mind since Omniskill is Complexity +1, the Plateau Effect kicks in after skill level 2, for APT 3.xx), so I'll need to rework the amount of SPs per GP. If I make Omniskill Difficulty 15, then the cost is 150 SP for the first level, total cost for level 1+2 is 450 SP (150+300) and total cost for level 1+2+3 is 150+300+900 which is 1350 SP - ouch. So basically with APT 3.00 you must spend all 4 GPs, the maximum you can, on being allowed to put 1500 SP into Omniskill. As soon as APT goes up, to like 3.28 (if Profstat is increased from 3 to 5, e.g.), the cost drops noticably. LS goes up (to nearly 1.2) and the PV cost multiplier drops from 3 to something a bit lower (I can't remember the exact way to calculate it)... With this scheme, I think it's actually best if I stick to 250 SP per GP.
- Sorry, the above was by me; adding signature now. --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 03:54, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- Now that I've signed, I can comment on what I wrote above. This new cost progression also makes Omniskill more tolerant of lower-than-3 Aptitude. Previously there was a slightly margin for below-average-APT for skill level 1, base cost 200 SP, vs a SP Threshold of 250 SP, but for skill level 2 there as no margin, base otal cost 500 SP, SP Threshold 500 SP. Reduce APT as low as 2.86 and you're screwed, having to spend one whole precious GP to be able to get Omniskill 2. Now there's a wider margin for Omniskill level 1, costing base 150 SP vs a Threshold of 250 SP, and level 2 has a slight margin, costing 450 SP total (base) vs a Threshold of 500 SP. If I were to change anything, it would be the pPVm, the post-Plateau Value modifier, lowering it from 3 to 2.5 so as to not be so extremely harsh. At least for Proffesion skills. Not sure about this. Omniskill pricing works now, and someone with Profstat 5 and otherwise APT 3.5'ish for Omniskill can probably buy Omniskill Threshold to level 3 with only 2 GPs, rather than having to pay 4.--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 03:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- I just tried to do the calculation with a handheld calculator, although I'm not 100% sure I remember the procedure (the PVm was particularly tricky; I ended up using 2.28) and I think that with APT 3.28, as one would get from Profstat 5 and all other attributes 3, the cost of Omniskill levels 1+2+3 is something like 1234 SP, so it fits into 3 Goodie Points spent on increasing the Omniskill Threshold (Threshold of 1250 SP)... No, wait, I did it wrong, I think. I think the total cost is around 947 SP, so it fits "inside" 2 SP (Threshold 1000 SP). Omniskill to level 4 total, with APT 3.28, would cost 2655 SP so is completely out of reach. With APT 4.00 the total cost for Omniskill to level 4 is 1614 SP, so still out of reach but now just barely. Raise APT to a bit over 4.00 and then Omniskill can be raised to level 4, although raising Omniskill APT to more than 4.00 is non-trivial. With Profstat 6.5, Intelligence 5, Dexterity 4, and Charisma, Will, Agility and Perception all at 3, I get an APT of 3.9 and more decimals. Profstat to 6 and the other attributes to 4 each does the trick, though: APT 4.28, and Omniskill 4 costs under 1250 SP.--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 05:07, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- And seconds after posting the above, I realize my mistake. The PVm should of course not have been 2.28, in the original example, 2 + the decimal part of the APT (0.28), but rather 3 - the decimal part, thus 2.72. I feel a bit stupid now, although at the same time I'm proud of catching my own mistake. Time for bed! --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 05:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- It should be fairly simple to make an MS Excel spreadsheet to calculate skill level costs for both normal skills and Profession skills, derived from APT, Difficulty and Complexity (and pPVm). I've made one before, after all, except that was long before Profession skills were invented as a special cost progression case. Also, such a simple Excel sheet should be easy to convert to Calc format (i.e. Open Office). Also, to clarify, the PVm should always be the difference between the pPV and the prePVm (i.e. 3-2 or 2-1.5) multiplied by 1-X, where X is the decimal part of the APT, e.g. if the APT is 3.43 then the decimal part is 0.43 and so X is 0.57 (and the pPVm is 2.57 for a Profession skill and 2-(0.57/2) for a normal skill; I can't be bothered to calculate 0.57/2 right now...). --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 17:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
- As I wrote on the mailing list a few hours ago, I have now made such a spreadsheet, in MS Excel 2003. --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 19:50, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
- It should be fairly simple to make an MS Excel spreadsheet to calculate skill level costs for both normal skills and Profession skills, derived from APT, Difficulty and Complexity (and pPVm). I've made one before, after all, except that was long before Profession skills were invented as a special cost progression case. Also, such a simple Excel sheet should be easy to convert to Calc format (i.e. Open Office). Also, to clarify, the PVm should always be the difference between the pPV and the prePVm (i.e. 3-2 or 2-1.5) multiplied by 1-X, where X is the decimal part of the APT, e.g. if the APT is 3.43 then the decimal part is 0.43 and so X is 0.57 (and the pPVm is 2.57 for a Profession skill and 2-(0.57/2) for a normal skill; I can't be bothered to calculate 0.57/2 right now...). --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 17:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
- And seconds after posting the above, I realize my mistake. The PVm should of course not have been 2.28, in the original example, 2 + the decimal part of the APT (0.28), but rather 3 - the decimal part, thus 2.72. I feel a bit stupid now, although at the same time I'm proud of catching my own mistake. Time for bed! --Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 05:09, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- I just tried to do the calculation with a handheld calculator, although I'm not 100% sure I remember the procedure (the PVm was particularly tricky; I ended up using 2.28) and I think that with APT 3.28, as one would get from Profstat 5 and all other attributes 3, the cost of Omniskill levels 1+2+3 is something like 1234 SP, so it fits into 3 Goodie Points spent on increasing the Omniskill Threshold (Threshold of 1250 SP)... No, wait, I did it wrong, I think. I think the total cost is around 947 SP, so it fits "inside" 2 SP (Threshold 1000 SP). Omniskill to level 4 total, with APT 3.28, would cost 2655 SP so is completely out of reach. With APT 4.00 the total cost for Omniskill to level 4 is 1614 SP, so still out of reach but now just barely. Raise APT to a bit over 4.00 and then Omniskill can be raised to level 4, although raising Omniskill APT to more than 4.00 is non-trivial. With Profstat 6.5, Intelligence 5, Dexterity 4, and Charisma, Will, Agility and Perception all at 3, I get an APT of 3.9 and more decimals. Profstat to 6 and the other attributes to 4 each does the trick, though: APT 4.28, and Omniskill 4 costs under 1250 SP.--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 05:07, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
- Now that I've signed, I can comment on what I wrote above. This new cost progression also makes Omniskill more tolerant of lower-than-3 Aptitude. Previously there was a slightly margin for below-average-APT for skill level 1, base cost 200 SP, vs a SP Threshold of 250 SP, but for skill level 2 there as no margin, base otal cost 500 SP, SP Threshold 500 SP. Reduce APT as low as 2.86 and you're screwed, having to spend one whole precious GP to be able to get Omniskill 2. Now there's a wider margin for Omniskill level 1, costing base 150 SP vs a Threshold of 250 SP, and level 2 has a slight margin, costing 450 SP total (base) vs a Threshold of 500 SP. If I were to change anything, it would be the pPVm, the post-Plateau Value modifier, lowering it from 3 to 2.5 so as to not be so extremely harsh. At least for Proffesion skills. Not sure about this. Omniskill pricing works now, and someone with Profstat 5 and otherwise APT 3.5'ish for Omniskill can probably buy Omniskill Threshold to level 3 with only 2 GPs, rather than having to pay 4.--Peter Knutsen (the Designer) 03:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
